Diego Fernandez (00:23): You are university professors, their names ...
Claudio
Díaz, Universidad de Valparaíso.
Sergio Grez, Universidad de Chile.
Diego Fernandez: students also joined us here ...
Igor Pezo, Catholic University of Valparaiso, Marc Hammer, history student same institute.
Diego Fernandez (00:42): Well, this stuff we're collecting for the Radio With Science, a radio are rising.
 |
| Sergio Grez (U de Chile) |
I address some issues, mostly a reflection on what has come to today: position of the mass media, in this case the television media, such as TVN, Canal 13 and Megavisión, to which they have filed suit - by a group of journalists and other people - because they have expressed confidence to the Mapuche conflict - Chilean being given at present here in Chile. This censorship has to do with more than 30 days have not passed any news on the subject. What is your position as Historians, on the Chilean-Mapuche Conflict, and the series of social conflicts that are occurring today? among them we can mention the issue of power plants, which was a demonstration which attracted large numbers of people, contrast with the amount of people who have called in support of Mapuche PP who are on hunger strike for more than 41 days if I remember correctly, the various movements to generate Citizens Assemblies in the different regions of the country, and well, in general, there has been disappointment in the way politics and political action in Chilean society. What would be its position, and what is your opinion, from the perspective of historians?
Sergio Grez (2:01): and are actually about 45 days hunger strike Mapuche Political Prisoners (PPM ), there is one thing is evident, and in that family and Mapuche organizations are right, here's a media siege, I would add, a true media dictatorship. In Chile, in Chile today, and I'm no longer referring to Chile's dictatorship, but from the nineties onward, has real existence, to the great mass of citizens, only what appears on television, not even appearing in newspapers. But it is clear that both the television, without exception, major newspaper chains: COPESA and El Mercurio, which control about 80% or 90% of not only the national press, but also the regional press, have established a unparalleled media blockade on the hunger strike of the PPM, the strike does not exist or to El Mercurio, La Tercera or to or for its many regional and provincial newspapers, nor for television ... and I say, not for most radio stations. No more than three or four radio stations with national coverage - some honorable exceptions Radio Radio Bio Bio and the University of Chile, among others - have even spoken of the Mapuche conflict, I say no and to report regularly, even when these two radio stations if they do. Therefore, it is clear that this is a political process, and which we are accustomed to television and Mercury in particular. Question or call Mapuche Mapuche conflict does not exist or, if there is only the fruit of the action of extremists, activists, probably paid for by money from abroad, with foreign ties - have argued the prosecution - with suspected terrorist groups from other countries and, therefore, the public has no right to be informed, even objectively (in quotes) and this conflict is denied not only in their bases or historical basis, but even in its most dramatic short-term expressions, such as the fact that a group of Chilean citizens (even in the case of Mapuche ... the Chilean State, rather than evil, recognized as such, of Chilean citizens, presumably) is not news to these mass media, so it is not uncommon - and I think rightly so - the College of Journalists in a statement put out a couple of days, have been banned precisely the attitude of these channels, again, have built a media siege, and are a fundamental part of the media dictatorship that exists in Chile today. And this is given on the Mapuche, is given with respect to other social movements, to the extent that they respond, even partially, the basis of current political and social order.
Claudio Diaz (05:16): I fully agree with my colleague, I would add if: First, the Chilean press has seldom been true space of freedom, has spaces of freedom in the irrelevant things, but every time you touch a subject of political importance, or affecting the system, or the endurance of the system Chilean press is closed. The famous declaration of 1967 of the Catholic James, during the reform: "The Mercury lies" right? And it had not started there. Now, not just El Mercurio, is the press, and is the world's press. And this has been a lot worse today due to a process that began in the Reagan era, very strong, and is the concentration of all the world media in too few hands, which are not even specialists in media communications: They are a large companies that have a lateral appendix also control communications, and that is used as a mechanism to lobby , that make for or against politicians who are or their addresses, of course, defend their interests. That left the United States and quickly spread to the world during the movement called globalization, which basically is the name given to what happened after the fall of the Soviet Union: Of course, when it's over the counter , then immediately moved the World Bank and all of these projects re-engineering of global society, beginning with the third world, and the concentration of the media. In Chile also occurred, and how embarrassing it occurred during the Concerta, for example, television channels were merged, in violation of antitrust laws monopoly, at the time of President Lagos. So derepente had two channels and clear, not now. Actually two cables, each cable has a lot of channels. There were two at least, is now one. So that's the outline.
Now, I agree with everything that is a shame that the Mapuche are subject to the Terrorism Act, just them. It's an insult that thing is unpresentable in a country that knows that the law is a dictatorial law. And considering that the other laws make it perfectly possible punishment of offenders, if they were criminals.
now, but besides that, there One thing I have a little surprise: the Mapuche Movement I do not see that is a major move to the right, of course it affected a few farmers, fresh, unimportant, irrelevant, are not very wealthy, are affected forests, but are not the only forests that exist in Chile, the Mapuche area is a part no more. So I do not see very clear what the motivation would be the traditional right to be so directly attacking the vindication Mapuche movement, after all, have done excellent business with this: every time the government gave them land concerted, bought them from highest price to farmers too right, boys generally farmers and other land belongs to the State, CONAFE. So it was no problem to do something so outrageous ... No one has gone to the heart of the matter: The Mapuche are protesting because they violated all peace treaties that were made when they surrendered to the Argentine army tremendous Chilean army and the tremendous , that to overwhelm both sides of the mountain with modern weapons, in 1883. So the only valid response to a serious government would be: first of all, make a careful study of legal title. Concerta Why did not it? One can not ask the right to do what he did Concerta. This to know if they are claiming land included or not included in the covenants. Now, I am absolutely sure that they are lands that have been removed long after, particularly land that have been removed very recently, during the military dictatorship. So what's the problem? Are violations of existing law of the land holders and removes them if they have no right to it: the same laws apply to defense of property that are so admirable to the right. While it is not that way the conflict, have no seriously.
And that to attribute international links with the guerrillas, with the Irish, with the Colombian narco ... Do not be silly! What matter the Colombian narco a group of Mapuche who do not have to buy silver or even coca? Not marijuana! So do not fool ... is just ridiculous.
Sergio Grez (10:13): I would like to add something about the topic of the press ... The press - the official Mercurial, television - presumably objective, and indeed informed "objectively" what it does is create view, and create a sense opinion clear: according to the interests of those economic groups that control those media, and opinion to the effect of maintaining the current social order, the current political status quo more or less unchanged. So here we are facing a political operation, very subtle, very well mounted, with many media and, sad to say, but in reality the press in Chile and the world - especially these large consortia of national and international press - has an enormous capacity to create public opinion, to generate emotions, generate feelings. They are able to motivate the best people, if they wish, and also the worst: solidarity campaigns, and campaigns of hatred and discrimination. It is a problem more, we face those somehow we intend to fight for a better society.
Diego Fernandez (11:53): I have two more questions before ending the interview: first over the scope that has had this news ... as we know, usually when communicationally is fenced within a country some news, here comes more strongly abroad: the case of Chilean-Mapuche conflict. From a personal perspective, newspapers in Catalonia, which are working with members of my family, who are journalists have tried to cover this conflict Chilean-Mapuche the relationship has been the subject of the miners, which has been given extensive coverage - and happily alive - but they have been given more coverage than is journalistically necessary. Just on this issue of national conflicts that are taking place within a territory just as it has expanded coverage on Gypsies in France, and is something that can be contrasted for example with the persecution that has been given journalistically the anarchist movement in Chile - we saw in the documentary special report - and the relationship was there by a policeman from the Movement is in English (where the image was caricatured a group of people doing Yoga occupies a house) and here in Chile a series of pamphlets ... "incendiary." In that sense, there's something here directly affects, and is the "globalization of communications." But you would say. the big problem here is Globalization? Taking into account - on different scales, clearly - that have already been a history of globalization at different times: we can see from the number of paths of the Inca Empire, here in America, the Chinese Empire, which is said (open to consider some documents) toured worldwide, and generated maps even, or the Roman Empire, which covered a lot. Would the Globalization a problem here, or would be a way of covering a series of localized conflicts, which have been segregated politically, but with a screen Globalization, as if it really happened in the world?
Claudio Diaz (14:05): Look, first I'll answer on Globalization: Globalization is an invented name that refers to a series of suggestions as any business name you put on your product: a razor ... the Jet Sky is neither jet nor has it anything to do with the sky, but they put Jet Sky because it brings a hint of smooth and fast plane. That's globalization. So if you try to answer the content, of course only an illiterate could have argued that the world is going global. The globalizing world is completed in 1900, when he completed all transcontinental railway systems, all the regular steamship lines and transoceanic telegraph and submarine cable across the land.
Sergio Grez (14:45): Sorry, I'll add something: And when there were no more territories to discover unknowns, and everything had been discovered. He had reached the North Pole and South Pole ...
Claudio Díaz (15:00): course, years later, 1905 inch, inch years after 1900; course was completed: It was the heart of Africa ... had no secrets territories. Now, what has only increased the flow rate and the masses, but globalization is actually made, what happens to what was called by the name of "globalization" per day after the fall of the Soviet Union, only hints at that, but the truth is not referring to this: Even the World Bank illiterate know that the world was globalized! No, they dress up with this "good news" that teach the world: "ah, we globalize, we become interdependent, we all reached" ... do not be silly ... with that disguise the plan of re-engineering of global society developed World Bank bureaucrats ended when the Soviet Union - backed, of course, Reagan - then this is the time of launching the project of globalization, and not released as a project because a project you immediately say, "Well, they came a few men, I might differ from them" is not launched as a project was launched as an inevitable process, something like the expansion of galaxies ... the only thing left to do is get on the bandwagon, because if not, you're down, that's the literal argument they used.
Well, eternal shame Chilean academics and global, there was no time to stop and say, "Hey, interesting idea but ... on what basis? What are your data, what are the engineering equations social? To ensure that the world is in the direction you say goes, and that the process is irreversible "They were silent academics ... So good, so that globalization is a lie as unification and interdependence, as occurred long ago.
Now, what is proposed is globalization? I know from what they say: Globalization recommends a lot of measures, these measures were called the upgrades, all these upgrades consist of capital is : Removing barriers to free capital ... trade, free flow of people (workers, mostly) free flow of ideas. Then there was free flow of ideas, communications had free trade, with minor modifications, so there was, was the free flow of capital ... So that is the most serious of all, every country that joins the globalization, way of a FTA (Free Trade Agreement) has no choice but to accept that any foreigner come and invest in what you crave in Chile, and that target the huge floating capital in the world, the goal to bag , and pop the stock of a Third World country. Then, enter these capitals (not left, not investment capital) and just down the value of the shares immediately withdraw: They make up, sold the day before, removed and sink the stock. That has been done in all the land, especially in the third world - except China, that has "stopped the car" in that case - then the stupidity that is causing the current global crisis is what is called globalization ... really. The rest is a hint of something that already happened.
Now, what is surprising is that the only mechanism currently exists to control the stupidity of globalization are nation-states, however: All buses conflicts, conflicts micro-nationalities: Catalonia, which is to wean - except that Catalonia has always wanted to wean, as the Basque, in order - now a lot of these conflicts is inflated, the Gypsies, you look (which is an autonomous thing, say, while do not bother much besides the gypsy girls are good and dance well, then, is not much to ruin an economy), then that is very bloated now ... all ethnic conflict: is it suddenly in the world - because all these are companies that financed the news - why isolate all? We currently have isolated the Mapuche Conflict in Chile, but the rest of the world, and have no isolated from other ethnic conflicts ... Could it be that the owners of these mega media companies have become lovers of ethnic diversity? Please! So ... "Since when?! No ... they are doing to undermine the nation states precisely because the nation states are the only ones who can tackle the Grand Capital. It is therefore not surprising that in Chile, instead of inflating the Mapuche, which would be correct according to the model, are turning the conflict.
I do not understand it right chile, I think that Chilean right is unbalanced world, the conclusion was more in tune with the world right that Chilean. So I do not quite understand the reason for the conflict, had large interests, such as a mega power company I would say "okay", but no, no. The only one who had no problems with it in the Bio-Bio after they were paid to the Mapuche something relatively decent, then it is unlikely that this part I do not understand. But I do understand is that in many ways these conflicts are inflated as one of many mechanisms of impairment of the internal solidarity of the States, not to hump the big companies.
Sergio Grez (20:52): Let's see, there are those who make a distinction between globalization and globalization. Globalization would roughly pointing Claudio features, ie it is not only an intensification of ties between the various societies of the earth and were isolated and were quite independent of one another until the fifteenth century as less, but also would be a cutting operation economic, political and ideological in the sense that he described. And therefore there would be distinguished from globalization would acceleration of these links, the growth of these links, this dependency, this means a certain political operation if only the finding of a phenomenon that is real.
And in that sense, even if you subscribe to either globalization or concepts should be included as a starting point that globalization or globalization began around the fifteenth century with the great navigators. When Europeans and other people visited by Europeans discover that there are cultures and civilizations quite different from theirs thousands miles away. And since globalization and globalization have continued to grow. Should be added that we might well agree with Claudio in the sense that globalization or globalization, if not ends, but at least reaches a significant point of decanting the early twentieth century have since been accelerated and ties have been strengthened and the speed and fluidity with which these linkages are economic, political and above all communication in which different societies, cultures, countries, states that comprise the human civilization. This is undeniable, not true, what communications are already more than evident.
Now, you can follow discussing the concepts and what meaning we give to these concepts, it is interesting to see what we do with that phenomenon as we interpret it in their specific political preoccupations today. We regret and believe that this is unfortunate but we can take some items, instruments, tools, weapons that globalization itself or globalization offers us, as almost instantaneous communication, I'm thinking about the internet, telephone, etc., to reverse certain processes certain operations or policies. But what they do or not do today the Mapuche in Chile, is known in minutes for the remainder of planet. Thanks to these technological developments, so that if there is a globalization or policy of exploitation and repression, there may be a globalization or resistance activities of these policies and distribution of alternative solutions.
Now with respect to the Mapuche conflict I have a disagreement with Claudio, I think so indeed there are powerful interests involved in the Araucanía, I'm thinking of the forest. Two of the main Chilean economic groups by name Angelini and Matte have large forestry interests, I'm not talking about the landowners classics that are types that have at most a few tens or hundreds of acres, I'm talking about huge tracts of land have been occupied, colonized by logging companies and forestry causing ecological damage can not be beaten by the native forest is replaced by forest radiata pine which has dire consequences for the soil and that the Mapuche communities involved that have to be evicted, cornered reductions equivalent to the term becomes completely original meaning and therefore there is a conflict, a confrontation of two modes conception of economics, economic development, economic sustainability, the relationship with nature relations between human communities that I think is a fundamental conflict in that sense the struggle for Mapuche resistance to the invasion of capitalism in their ancestral lands is a fight that should give encouragement and should stop lessons for other sectors oppressed and exploited by capitalism in Chile. The popular sectors in Chile have to understand that the struggle of the Mapuche people, the national struggle of the Mapuche people is a struggle that concerns them, that the Mapuche struggle beyond their own national interests as a people.
when for example the issue of sustainable economic development, when for example another type of relationship with nature, when for example, your firm and resolute opposition against laws inherited from the dictatorship as the Terrorism Act or against the excessive power of military justice in Chile, if this is unique in the world. A civilian who has any entrevelo with police, who insult at a rally or hold on to combos with him, can be taken to the military justice military still?, Then these claims raised by the Mapuche people are claims that have to do with the interests of the vast majority of citizens of Chile, which at the moment unfortunately do not understand it but they should understand and therefore act in solidarity with the Mapuche in terms even of their own interests.
Diego Fernandez (27:52): Well we still have a little time, less than a minute. What would your message as university professors to future historians and to the citizens to deal for or against the series of changes that are occurring nationally and globally today?
Claudio Diaz (28:13): reborn consciousness criticism of a nation, as was the message from the university renovated the year 67-68.
Sergio Grez (28:21): If I simply add and I absolutely agree with Claudio posed. Of the need to critically analyze the social and political realities of the present and the past. Thick veils draw back and consider, if possible, without blinkers the past, as far as we are able to destroy the myth-making and see the naked reality and thereby build critical consciousness as he said and from critical consciousness critical citizenship and reflective, but that depends not on a group of people but each and every one of us. Or it is up to each take the job.
